Difference between revisions of "Karma"

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(→‎Compendium: can only re-summon if you previously owned the demon.)
 
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[[File:Transferable_Skills.jpg|thumb|360px|[[Barong]]'s status page: his Awaken skill is Recarmdra, it is the skill marked by a lock. If Barong is Awakened the skill gets unlocked]]
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=Overview=
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Karma:
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[[File:Transferable_Skills.jpg|thumb|360px|[[Barong]]'s status page: his Awaken skill is [[Recarmdra]], it is the skill marked by a lock. If Barong is Awakened the skill gets unlocked.]]
 +
[[File:Icon Karma.png|32px|link=]] Karma:
 
*is mainly obtained by selling Demons in the Pandemonium, which is the easiest way to get rid of demons you consider useless.
 
*is mainly obtained by selling Demons in the Pandemonium, which is the easiest way to get rid of demons you consider useless.
 
*isn't a "farmable" resource, but more a resource that is accumulated.
 
*isn't a "farmable" resource, but more a resource that is accumulated.
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*is mainly used to purchase Arch-Shifters to change the Archetypes of Demons, though it may also be spent to summon some Common Demons.
+
*is mainly used to purchase Arch-Shifters to change the [[Archetypes]] of Demons, though it may also be spent to summon some {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} [[Archetypes|Common Demons]].
 
*may be spent in the '''Compendium''', at the Hideout, or in the '''Exchange''' area, accessible in the Store (button below) or in the Sell Demons facility at the Pandemonium (button at the lower left).
 
*may be spent in the '''Compendium''', at the Hideout, or in the '''Exchange''' area, accessible in the Store (button below) or in the Sell Demons facility at the Pandemonium (button at the lower left).
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=Archetypes=
 
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[[File:Arch-Selector 4★ on Sonic (Psychic).png|thumb|Archetypes: Aragami (wild) (red), Protector (yellow), Psychic (purple), and Elementalist (teal).]]
 
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Each demon may exist in 5 Archetypes : Common (clear/grey), Aragami (red), Protector (yellow), Psychic (purple), and Elementalist (teal). The color/archetype your demon has is visible on its status page.
 
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*The Archetype of a demon only determines the Awaken skill it possesses (see each demon wiki entry to see the different Awaken skills it may have).
 
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*Awaken skills are locked until the demon is Awakened in Pandemonium in exchange of Aethers (items you can farm in [[Strange Signal]]).
 
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*For a given demon, some archetypes may be better than others (see [[Tier List]] or the demon's wiki profile page to know what is the best Archetype for a given demon).
 
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*Archetypes are attributed to demons when you summon (Gacha) them. Except for "Normal Summon" and "Hell Bun Summon" (both only summon Common/Clear demons), the Archetypes of summoned demons are chosen completely randomly among the 4 non-Common Archetypes.
 
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*However fusing a demon allows you to fully decide which Archetype the demon will get: you need 1 of the two fusion materials to be Clear, and the result of the fusion will inherit the Archetype of the other fusion material.
 
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This poses a problem : whenever you pull/summon a demon, you only have a 1/4 chance of getting the demon's optimal Archetype. This is even more serious if the demon you wish to summon is not fusible.
 
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This problem is solved by items called Arch-Shifters and Arch-Selectors that allow you to change the Archetype of a demon. They are either obtained through events or in the Karma shop.
 
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==Archetype Shifting Items==
 
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[[File:Karma_Shop.jpg|thumb|270px|Picture of the different Arch-Shifters]]
 
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Arch-Shifters are consumable items that can be used on a '''non-Common''' Archetype demon and, when used, '''randomly''' change the demon's Archetype.
 
−
 
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*2 types exist : one that can only be used on '''Natural''' 4★ (Arch-Shifter 4★) and the other on '''Natural''' 5★ (Arch-Shifter 5★), that is, it doesn't matter that a demon was evolved, if it's originally a 4★ or a 5★ demon, it'll still require a 4★ or 5★ Selector/Shifter.
 
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**The random aspect of the Archetype change means you will often need to use more than one Arch-Shifter on the same demon to obtain the desired Archetype.
 
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[[File:Arch-Selector 3 Stars.png|thumb|Arch-Selector 3★]]
 
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*Arch-Selectors will allow you to change to the Archetype of your '''choice'''. They come in 3 types, Arch-Selector 3★ (only changes the Archetype of Demons below Grade 60), 4★ (only changes Demons of Grade from 60 to 79), and 5★ (only changes Demons of Grade 80 or above).
 
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**Arch-Selector 3★ is usually only available in time-limited events.
 
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*On a price per utility basis, Arch-Shifters are '''better''' than Arch-Selectors ''(on average you only need 3 Arch-Shifter to get the desired Archeype, while Selectors cost 5 times more Karma)''.
 
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*Beware about the availability of the Arch-Shifters/Selectors, though, as they are offered in limited quantities per month. Although expensive, it may be a good idea to have one or two Arch-Shifters in case of need.
 
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'''Managing Arch-Shifters'''
 
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Arch-Shifters 5★ are very expensive: 3000 Karmas represent 10 non-Common 4★ demons sold... And 3 of them are usually needed. The 4★ version is also expensive for what it does. As such, Arch-Shifters should be kept for:
 
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*Non-fusible Demons. Fusible ones should be fused with the correct Archetype instead.
 
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*Demons you plan to use immediately and who would benefit a lot from having the correct Archetype. If you don't plan to use the demon in the near future, it is smarter to wait as there is a chance you would summon the Demon again but in its correct Archetype.
 
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*Very expensive fusible demons. It can be acceptable to use Shifters on very high Grade 5★ demons (Lucifer, Metatron, Shiva etc.) if you absolutely need them now.
 
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Aside from the very expensive Karma shop, Arch-Shifters can be obtained through events. It is not impossible to get one Arch-Shifter 5★ each month, from events, if Sega is being generous.
 
  
 
=Karma management=
 
=Karma management=
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There is no place to directly harvest Karma in the game. You accumulate Karma by selling 3★, 4★ and 5★ demons. The profit for selling demons depends on several factors, including which demons are sold, how they are obtained, how hard it is to obtain them, and how much and what it costs to obtain them.
 
There is no place to directly harvest Karma in the game. You accumulate Karma by selling 3★, 4★ and 5★ demons. The profit for selling demons depends on several factors, including which demons are sold, how they are obtained, how hard it is to obtain them, and how much and what it costs to obtain them.
  
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There are basically three ways of obtaining demons, 1) [[Talk|talking]] and convincing them to join you, 2) summoning them using items, and 3) fusing two or more demons to create a new one.
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There are basically three ways of obtaining demons:
 +
* [[Talk|talking]] and convincing them to join you
 +
* [[Summoning Guide|summoning]] them using items
 +
* fusing two or more demons to create a new one.
 +
 
 +
The cost of '''summoning''' is, simply put, time: it takes playing time to obtain items for Summoning, like [[File:Icon Gems.png|32px|link=]] Gems and Summoning Files.
 +
 
 +
The cost of '''fusing''' is [[File:Icon Mag.png|32px|link=]] Magnetite, which also requires time to harvest, but thanks to the auto-playing feature, it can be collected without the player actually having to do anything, just leaving the game playing by itself.
  
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The cost of summoning is, simply put, time: it takes playing time to obtain items for summoning, like Gems and Summoning Files.
+
The cost of '''talking''' is kind of a mix between those two: the game has an auto-talk feature, but it fails a lot, as it doesn't learn from previous conversations. Thus, although the game has a way of automatically gathering demons, it doesn't perform as well as manually talking to them, yielding less demons per Stamina spent.
  
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The cost of fusing is Magnetite, which also requires time to harvest, but thanks to the auto-playing feature, it can be collected without the player actually having to do anything, just leaving the game playing by itself.
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Summarizing, [[File:Icon Mag.png|32px|link=]] Magnetite (usually) requires less effort to harvest than [[Talk|talking]] or [[Summoning Guide|summoning]] Demons, so fusing demons seems like a better way of obtaining higher-grade demons and, therefore, collecting more Karma.
  
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The cost of talking is kind of a mix between those two: the game has an auto-talk feature, but it fails a lot, as it doesn't learn from previous conversations. Thus, although the game has a way of automatically gathering demons, it doesn't perform as well as manually talking to them, yielding less demons per Stamina spent.
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=== Karma efficiency from fusion ===
 +
:<span style="color:#FF0000">'''NOTE: DO NOT FUSE TO GENERATE KARMA IF YOU ARE NEW. This is ONLY for endgame people who have nothing left to fuse, and have a large excess of Magnetite. New players should instead put Magnetite towards demons and panels that they will actually use.'''</span>
  
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Summarizing, Magnetite requires, usually, less effort to harvest than talking or summoning demons, so fusing demons, at first, seems like a better way of obtaining higher grade demons and, therefore, collecting more Karma.
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:<span style="color:#FF0000">'''If you need arch shifters/selectors, just wait a couple weeks and an event will probably give you some for free.'''</span>
  
 
The table below contains the costs for fusing some of the cheapest demons (rounded up):
 
The table below contains the costs for fusing some of the cheapest demons (rounded up):
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
|-
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! Demon !! Cost !! Profit !! Rates
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! rowspan=2 | Demon !! rowspan=2 | Cost !! rowspan=2 | [[File:Icon Karma.png|32px|link=]] Karma Profit !! colspan=3 | Cost-per-Karma
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|-
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! [[File:Icon Gems.png|32px|link=]] Gems !! [[File:Icon Mag.png|32px|link=]] Mag !! Other
 
|-
 
|-
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| 3★ Clear || rare demon talk || 1 Karma || 1 Demon/Karma
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| 3★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} Clear || rare demon talk || 1 Karma || - || - || 1 Demon
 
|-
 
|-
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| 3★ Colored || (50~100 Gems for summoning) || 10 Karma || zero Mag (5~10 Gems/Karma)
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| 3★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Red|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Yellow|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Purple|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Teal|size=15px}} Colored || (50~100 Gems for summoning) || 10 Karma || 5-10 Gems || - || -
 
|-
 
|-
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| 4★ Clear || fusing [[Sandalphon]]: 171k Mag + about 13 1★ Clear Demons || 30 Karma || 5700 Mag/Karma
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| 4★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} Clear || fusing {{DemonIcon|Sandalphon|size=32px}}: 171k Mag + about 13 1★ Clear Demons || 30 Karma || - || 5700 Mag || -
 
|-
 
|-
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| 4★ Colored || fusing [[Sandalphon]]: 50-100 Gems + 2 1★ Clear Demon + 330k Mag || 300 Karma || 5-10 Gems + ~1100 Mag/Karma
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| 4★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Red|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Yellow|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Purple|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Teal|size=15px}} Colored || fusing {{DemonIcon|Sandalphon|size=32px}}: 50-100 Gems + 2 1★ Clear Demon + 330k Mag || 300 Karma || 5-10 Gems || ~1100 Mag || -
 
|-
 
|-
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| 5★ Clear || fusing [[Alilat]]: about 1M Mag + 60 1★ Clear Demons || 250 Karma || ~3850 Mag/Karma
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| 5★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} Clear || fusing {{DemonIcon|Alilat|size=32px}}: about 1M Mag + 60 1★ Clear Demons || 250 Karma || - || ~3850 Mag || -
 
|-
 
|-
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| 5★ Colored || fusing [[Lilith]]: 50-100 Gems + about 36 1★ Clear Demons + 3.7M Karma || 2500 Karma || 5-10 Gems + ~1500 Mag/Karma
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| 5★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Red|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Yellow|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Purple|size=15px}}{{ArchIcon|arch=Teal|size=15px}} Colored || fusing {{DemonIcon|Lilith|size=32px}}: 50-100 Gems + about 36 1★ Clear Demons + 3.7M Mag || 2500 Karma || 5-10 Gems || ~1500 Mag || -
 
|}
 
|}
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Because the procedure to obtain "Gacha Demons" will surely crowd up the inventory with lots of useless 3★ Colored Demons, their 5 Gem cost's irrelevant (they'd be spent anyway). That yields to the conclusion that the most inexpensive way to collect Karma is by selling 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each... What yields to another conclusion, that it's dumb slow to do that!
 
  
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For example, to purchase an Arch-Shifter 5★ for 3000 Karma, it would be necessary to sell 300 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each. At a summoning rate of 10 demons per banner, that'd be 30 banner summonings. If one is trying to save Gems, that'd be about four 500 Gem banner summonings per month, so, to get a single Arch-Shifter 5★ for the best exchange ratio, a player would have to wait about seven months... Of course, this estimate supposes that only 3★ Colored Demons will be pulled from the 500 Gem banners (what's not so likely to happen, but abiding to Murphy's Law, it does happen), or that the player won't want to sell away any of the eventual 4★ Colored Demons it gets (maybe it's a beginner, seeking numbers more than quality at the time).
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====Idea 1: sell 3★ Colored demons immediately====
 +
Because the procedure to obtain "Gacha Demons" will surely crowd up the inventory with lots of useless 3★ [[Archetypes|Colored Demons]], their 5 [[File:Icon Gems.png|32px|link=]] Gem cost's irrelevant (they'd be spent anyway). This leads to the conclusion that the most inexpensive way to collect Karma is by selling 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each, at a cost of effectively nothing. However, your Karma income will be *very* slow by doing that!
 +
 
 +
For example, to purchase an [[File:Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Shifter 5★ for 3000 Karma, it would be necessary to sell 300 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each. At a summoning rate of 10 demons per banner, that'd be 30 banner summonings. If one is trying to save Gems, that'd be about four 500 Gem banner summonings per month, so, to get a single Arch-Shifter 5★ for the best exchange ratio, a player would have to wait about seven months...
 +
 
 +
Of course, this estimate assumes the worst-case that only 3★ Colored Demons will be pulled from the 500 Gem banners (sometimes your luck really is that bad), or that the player won't want to sell away any of the eventual 4★ Colored Demons that they get (maybe it's a beginner, seeking quantity more than quality at the time).
 +
 
 +
'''Conclusion:'''
 +
* In terms of getting steady Karma income, it's way too slow.
 +
* If you just need to make space in your inventory, selling the 3★ is fine, and should be your default action.
 +
 
 +
====Idea 2: fuse 3★ Colored demons up, then sell====
 +
If you've reached a point in the game where you can harvest Magnetite fast enough, have a lot of it to spare, and are in a hurry to get Karma, it can be worth spending some Mag to fuse 3★ Colored Demons into a higher rarity before selling them. But how far should we go with this: 4★ or 5★?
 +
 
 +
Looking at the table above, the most Mag-efficient method is fusing a 3★ Colored Demon into a 4★ Colored Demon, with a cost of ~1100 Mag per Karma gained.
 +
 
 +
If we assume this method, an [[File:Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Shifter 5★ at 3,000 Karma is still quite expensive - you'd need to fuse 10x 4★ Colored Demons, at a cost of 3.3 mil Mag. That's approximately the Mag cost of fusing one 5★ Colored Demon.
 +
 
 +
Cost-saving tactics for fusion:
 +
* Every month or so, some demon races will have a 30% off Fusion price discount, making the conversion rates more attractive.
 +
* Plan for the Colored Demon fusion to be used in the last step of the fusion (the step that actually creates the 4★). If you insert it earlier, you'll end up spending extra Mag on creating 3★ Colored demons.
 +
 
 +
'''Conclusion:'''
 +
* If your Mag income is good, you can consider fusing 3★ Colored Demons into 4★ Colored Demons, then selling.
 +
* You should NOT expect to be able to do this with ''every'' 3★ Colored Demon that you pull - it'll cost too much Mag for you to keep up. If you just want to free up inventory space, sell the 3★ Colored demons raw.
  
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Thus, if you have reached a point in the game where you can harvest Magnetite fast enough, have a lot of it to spare and is in a hurry to get Karma, it may be worth spending about 330k Mag to fuse one 3★ Colored Demon into a 4★ Colored Demon to sell it for 300 Karma. In other words, you have to ponder between spending 330k Mag, one 3★ Colored Demon and at least two Common Demons in a fusion process or sell thirty 3★ Colored Demons to obtain the same 300 Karma.
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=== What's worth selling? ===
 +
First of all, '''do not sell 5★ Demons, EVER!'''
  
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Regard that an Arch-Shifter 5★ will still be pretty expensive, at the equivalent cost of 3.3 M Mag for fusing 10 3★ Colored Demons into 4★ for quick Karma drawing, or, putting in another perspective, about the same effort and cost of fusing 3 [[Alilat|Alilats]], one of the cheapest 5★ Demons in the game that's useful (and no, never ever fuse an Alilat to sell it for Karma, because it can only be fused Common/Clear, meaning, it'd yield only 250 Karma, 50 Karma less than selling any 4★ Colored Demon).
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Unwanted 5★ Demons have several better uses to consider:
 +
* '''Fusion''' - You could fuse the 5★ into a different 5★ that you actually want to keep.
 +
* '''Paneling''' - [[Spirit Merge|Spiritizing]] dupes of a 5★ demon to unlock its Panels.
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** '''Fusing-then-Paneling''' - If the demon's panels don't look interesting, you could also fuse the 5★ into a different 5★ that you want to Panel instead, then spiritize it.
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* '''Armaments''' - Creating, Paneling or Upgrading [[Armaments]] in [[Alter-World]].
 +
** Note 1: for Paneling and Upgrading, the Demons must be [[Spirit Merge|Spiritized]], which cannot be reverted, so make sure the desired Weapons have been created before Spiritizing the Demons to Panel or Upgrade them.
 +
** Note 2: while Paneling is Demon-specific, that is, it requires [[Spirit Merge|Spirits]] of the same Demon, Upgrading requires Demon Compound or any 4★ or 5★ Demon Spirits (5★ Spirits yields 100% success on Upgrading.)
  
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From time to time, some demons get fusion price discounts, usually ranging from 10 to 20% cut, making the conversion rates more attractive, but still not worth it.
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It's also less-efficient to fuse-then-sell 5★ compared to fuse-then-sell 4★, anyway.
  
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It's best to plan for the Colored Demon fusion to be the last, that is, the Colored Demon should directly yield a 4★ Demon, otherwise, more Mag will be spent fusing 1-3★ Colored Demons to finally obtain a 4★ demon for selling.
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==== Which 3★ and 4★ to sell? ====
 +
Not every 3★ and 4★ Demon is suitable for being sold, though (they aren't ''all'' useless):
 +
* '''Skill Transfer''' - If they have rare or useful transferable Gacha skills, you should keep them as fodder for those skills. See the [[Skill Transfer#Advanced skills - Hoarding Demons for their Gacha skills|Skill Transfer]] article for some examples of what to look for.
 +
*'''Don't sell 3★ and 4★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} Common Demons''' - They yield very little Karma (1 and 30 respectively), and are a lot more useful as fusion materials.
 +
* '''Democalypse fillers''' - Some 4★ Demons can be useful for [[Democalypse]] (bi-weekly Faction Event), at least as long as you still lack 5★s.
 +
** {{DemonIcon|Anubis|size=32px}} and {{DemonIcon|Titania|size=32px}} are the most-notable decent 4★ to keep for [[Democalypse]].
 +
** Check the [[Democalypse]] article and the [[Tier List]] to evaluate which ones you want to keep.
 +
** That being said, gathering [[Magnetite]] to fuse 4★ will become quite easy the further you are in the game. So, you shouldn't worry too much about selling fusible 4★.
 +
* '''Fusion fodder''' - If a 4★ is "useless" by the above rules, but still has a high Grade (generally 66 or higher), it may be worth keeping them around for performing future 5★ fusions.
  
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Important tips:
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Only sell demons if you immediately need an Arch-Shifter, or you feel flooded with too many Demons and are urged to do some cleaning.
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*'''Do not sell 5★ Demons, EVER!''' Unwanted 5★ Demons should be [[Spirit Merge|spiritized]] to unlock Panels of same type Demons or to enhance Armaments in [[Alter-World]].
 
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*'''Karma shouldn't be "farmed,"''' that is, do not pull/summon Colored Demons with Gems for the sake of "farming" Karma. Colored Demons, mainly 3★, will naturally pile up as one goes through banners to try getting rare Demons, so there will be plenty to be sold for their Karma.
 
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*'''Don't sell 3★ and 4★ Common Demons''', as they are a lot more useful as fusion material than the 1 and 30 Karma they would yield if sold.
 
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*Karma is not worth enough to justify spending Magnetite to gather it routinely. Magnetite is extremely important to fuse 5★ Demons for spiritizing, so, although selling 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma sounds like a bad deal, when the 1000 demons storage limit is reached, and it'll be inevitably reached, sooner than later, it's not worth converting all excess 3★ demons to 4★ just to sell them for 300 Karma, not exactly because of the Mag cost, but because only one Colored Demon can be used for every 4★ Colored Demon's fusion (two Colored Demons cannot be fused), that is, it'd require Magnetite enough to fuse at least ten Colored Demons per week to keep the storage from overflowing, just to avoid selling those useless excess Demons... So, sell all those excess 3★ without a second thought, as there will be many more coming every other day.
 
  
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Not every 3★ and 4★ Demons are suitable for being sold, though (they are not all useless):
+
===Selling Genomes===
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*if they have rare or useful transferable Gacha skills, you should keep them as transferable skill fodders (see [[Skill Transfer#Advanced skills - Hoarding Demons for their Gacha skills]] for a list of rare transferable Gacha skills).
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As of Patch 3.2.00, you can sell [[File:Icon Skill Genome.png|32px|link=]] Skill Genomes in the items menu at the following rates:
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*Common (aka Clear) Archetype demons should not be sold as they yield little Karma and are more useful as fusion material.
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* 4★ Genomes: 100 Karma
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*Gacha demons (aka non-fusible) are not to be sold.
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* 5★ Genomes: 1000 Karma
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*Some 4★ Demons can be useful for [[Democalypse]] (bi-weekly Faction Event), at least as long as you still lack 5★s. [[Anubis]] and [[Titania]] are the most notable decent 4★ to keep for [[Democalypse]] (check the [[Democalypse]] article and the [[Tier List]] to evaluate which ones you want to keep).
 
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**That being said, as you go through the game, gathering [[Magnetite]] to fuse 4★ will become quite easy. So, you shouldn't worry too much about selling fusible 4★.
 
  
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A few "useless" fusible demons should be kept for future fusions you may want to perform. Good fusion materials are high Grade demons, so you may want to keep the highest Grade 3 and 4 ★ demons. You would probably want them to be of diverse colors, in case you need to fuse a demon in a precise Archetype.
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However, due to the scarcity of 4/5★ Genomes, '''it is ill-advised to sell Genomes for Karma'''.
  
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Only sell demons if you immediately need an Arch-Shifter or you feel flooded with too many Demons and are urged to do some cleaning.
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It is possible to obtain a supply of 4/5★ Genomes by spending 250 [[File:Icon Battle Points.png|32px|link=]] Battle Points on Elemental Skill Boxes, which hand out 4/5★ Genomes. The {{ElementIcon|Almighty|name=1}} Skill Box contains not-very-useful almighty attacks such as [[Necro Dogma]], which are considered 5★ Genomes, at the cost of 500 Duel Points.
  
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As of Patch 3.2.00, you can sell 4★ Genomes (100 Karma) and 5★ Genomes (1000 Karma) in the Items menu. However, due to the scarcity of 4/5★ Genomes, it is ill-advised to sell Genomes for Karma. It is possible to obtain a supply of 4/5★ Genome by spending 250 Duel Points on Elemental Skill Boxes which hand out 4/5★ Genomes. The Almighty Skill Box contains not very useful almighty attacks such as [[Necro Dogma]] which are considered 5★ Genomes at the cost of 500 Duel Points. As of September 2020, reaching Diamond 1 in PvP at the end of each ranked season will net you a "H" elemental skill such as [[Maragidyne H]] which is useful for [[Democalypse]], but also are 5★ Genomes worth 1000 karma.
+
As of September 2020, reaching Diamond 1 in PvP at the end of each ranked season will net you a "H" elemental skill such as [[Maragidyne H]] which is useful for [[Democalypse]], but also are 5★ Genomes worth 1000 karma.
  
 
==Spending Karma==
 
==Spending Karma==
 +
===Exchange shop===
 +
[[File:Karma_Shop.jpg|thumb|270px|Picture of the different Arch-Shifters]]
 
Arch-Shifters are the primary items for Karma spending. But you can buy a few other items with Karma:
 
Arch-Shifters are the primary items for Karma spending. But you can buy a few other items with Karma:
  
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*Tendency Selectors: this item allows you to change the AI-type of a demon. 10 Karma in exchange of 10 Tendency Selectors; a very good price, good item to spend a few Karmas on.
+
* '''[[File:Icon Tendency Selector.png|32px|link=]] Tendency Selectors:''' This item allows you to change a demon's AI when auto mode is on. 10 Karma for 10 Tendency Selectors is a very good price, so this is good item to spend a little Karma on.
  
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*Low rarity demons (1 and 2★): they may be purchased in the Compendium (not the Karma shop). [[Kanbari]] is one of the best Compendium demons to purchase (see [[Leveling]]).
+
* '''Low-rarity demons (1 and 2★):''' These can be purchased in the Compendium (not the Karma shop). {{DemonIcon|Kanbari|size=32px}} is one of the best Compendium demons to purchase (see [[Leveling]]).
−
**Other than that, it can be worth it to spend on 2★ if they are complicated to talk/fuse and belong to the road map for a demon you want to fuse.  
+
**Other than that, it can be worth it to spend on 2★ if they are complicated to talk/fuse and are on the road map for a demon you want to fuse.  
−
**You should be very conservative with your purchases at the Compendium. Try to avoid it, as 1★ and 2★ demons are usually easy enough to recruit and/or fuse, though at the cost of Stamina and time.
+
**You should be very conservative with your purchases at the Compendium. Try to avoid it, as 1★ and 2★ demons are usually easy enough to recruit and/or fuse, though at the cost of [[File:Icon Stamina.png|32px|link=]] Stamina and time.
  
−
*4★ Common (Clear) demons in the Karma shop: a selection of 4★ are available in the Karma shop (as of August of 2021, [[Odin]] and [[Anubis]] for 1500 Karma, [[Azrael]], [[Rangda]], [[Sandalphon]] and [[Wu Kong]] for 1000 Karma). '''Don't buy them, ever''', unless you are extremely desperate and in a hurry for whatever reason. Even [[Odin]], the most valuable of them, would cost a little less than 500k Mag to fuse, but would cost the equivalent of the boggling amount of 150 3★ Colored Demons sold for 10 Karma each to purchase. The only practical reason for wasting that much Karma would be to save the time that'd be spent gathering the necessary demons to fuse (but if one doesn't have much time, why is it playing this game?!)
+
* '''4★ {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} Common (Clear) demons in the Karma shop:''' a selection of 4★ are available in the Karma shop. '''Don't buy them, ever''', unless you are extremely desperate and in a hurry for whatever reason. Even {{DemonIcon|Odin|size=32px}}, the most valuable of them, would cost a little less than 500k [[File:Icon Mag.png|32px|link=]] Mag to fuse, but would cost the equivalent of the boggling amount of 150 3★ Colored Demons sold for 10 Karma each to purchase. The only practical reason for wasting that much Karma would be to save the time that'd be spent gathering the necessary demons to fuse (but if one doesn't have much time, why play this game?!)
  
−
*Hell Buns: These are ridiculously expensive, '''don't buy them'''.
+
* '''[[File:Icon 5 Star Hell Bun.png|32px|link=]] 5★ Hell Buns:''' These are ridiculously expensive, '''don't buy them'''.
 +
 
 +
Karma shop listings:
 +
{| class="wikitable sortable"
 +
|-
 +
! Item !! [[File:Icon Karma.png|32px|link=]] Karma cost !! Cap
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Transcend Stone.png|32px|link=]] Transcend Stone for {{DemonIcon|Indrajit|size=32px}} || 2,000 || 94
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Transcend Stone.png|32px|link=]] Transcend Stone for {{DemonIcon|Mahakala|size=32px}} || 2,000 || 94
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Transcend Stone.png|32px|link=]] Transcend Stone for {{DemonIcon|Yoshitsune|size=32px}} || 1,500 || 94
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Transcend Stone.png|32px|link=]] Transcend Stone for {{DemonIcon|Alice|size=32px}} || 1,500 || 94
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Odin|size=32px}} || 1,500 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Anubis|size=32px}} || 1,500 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Azrael|size=32px}} || 1,000 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Rangda|size=32px}} || 1,000 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Sandalphon|size=32px}} || 1,000 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px}} {{DemonIcon|Wu Kong|size=32px}} || 1,000 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon 5 Star Hell Bun.png|32px|link=]] 5★ Hell Buns x50 || 15,000 || 2 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Arch Selector 5 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Selector 5★ || 15,000 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Arch Selector 4 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Selector 4★ || 2,500 || 1 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Shifter 5★ || 3,000 || 5 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Arch Shifter 4 Star.png|32px|link=]] Arch-Shifter 4★ || 500 || 5 / month
 +
|-
 +
| [[File:Icon Tendency Selector.png|32px|link=]] Tendency Selector 5★ x10 || 10 || No cap
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
===Compendium===
 +
Karma can be spent to re-summon certain demons from the Compendium. However, there are several restrictions:
 +
 
 +
* You can only summon 1★-3★ demons that you have previously owned.
 +
* The demon summoned will always be {{ArchIcon|arch=Clear|size=15px|name=1}}.
 +
* You cannot summon [[Mitama]] demons, [[Event Reward Demons|event-exclusive demons]], or [[Summoning Pool|gacha-exclusive demons]].
 +
* Multi-fusion demons have a higher Karma cost.
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable "
 +
! Demon !! [[File:Icon Karma.png|32px|link=]] Karma Cost
 +
|-
 +
| most 1★ || 3
 +
|-
 +
| multi-fusion 1★ || 6
 +
|-
 +
| most 2★ || 10
 +
|-
 +
| multi-fusion 2★ || 20
 +
|-
 +
| most 3★ || 300
 +
|-
 +
| multi-fusion 3★ || 600
 +
|}
  
 
=See also=
 
=See also=
 +
*[[Archetypes]].
 
*[[Resource Management Guides]] for other advanced guides.
 
*[[Resource Management Guides]] for other advanced guides.
−
'''For another uses of fodder demons:'''
+
'''For other uses of fodder demons:'''
 
*[[Skill Transfer]]
 
*[[Skill Transfer]]
 
*[[Leveling]]
 
*[[Leveling]]
 
*[[Spirit Merge]]
 
*[[Spirit Merge]]
 +
 +
{{Game Mechanics navbox}}

Latest revision as of 02:24, 31 December 2023

Overview

Barong's status page: his Awaken skill is Recarmdra, it is the skill marked by a lock. If Barong is Awakened the skill gets unlocked.

Icon Karma.png Karma:

  • is mainly obtained by selling Demons in the Pandemonium, which is the easiest way to get rid of demons you consider useless.
  • isn't a "farmable" resource, but more a resource that is accumulated.
  • is mainly used to purchase Arch-Shifters to change the Archetypes of Demons, though it may also be spent to summon some Clear Common Demons.
  • may be spent in the Compendium, at the Hideout, or in the Exchange area, accessible in the Store (button below) or in the Sell Demons facility at the Pandemonium (button at the lower left).

Karma management

Accumulating Karma

There is no place to directly harvest Karma in the game. You accumulate Karma by selling 3★, 4★ and 5★ demons. The profit for selling demons depends on several factors, including which demons are sold, how they are obtained, how hard it is to obtain them, and how much and what it costs to obtain them.

There are basically three ways of obtaining demons:

  • talking and convincing them to join you
  • summoning them using items
  • fusing two or more demons to create a new one.

The cost of summoning is, simply put, time: it takes playing time to obtain items for Summoning, like Icon Gems.png Gems and Summoning Files.

The cost of fusing is Icon Mag.png Magnetite, which also requires time to harvest, but thanks to the auto-playing feature, it can be collected without the player actually having to do anything, just leaving the game playing by itself.

The cost of talking is kind of a mix between those two: the game has an auto-talk feature, but it fails a lot, as it doesn't learn from previous conversations. Thus, although the game has a way of automatically gathering demons, it doesn't perform as well as manually talking to them, yielding less demons per Stamina spent.

Summarizing, Icon Mag.png Magnetite (usually) requires less effort to harvest than talking or summoning Demons, so fusing demons seems like a better way of obtaining higher-grade demons and, therefore, collecting more Karma.

Karma efficiency from fusion

NOTE: DO NOT FUSE TO GENERATE KARMA IF YOU ARE NEW. This is ONLY for endgame people who have nothing left to fuse, and have a large excess of Magnetite. New players should instead put Magnetite towards demons and panels that they will actually use.
If you need arch shifters/selectors, just wait a couple weeks and an event will probably give you some for free.

The table below contains the costs for fusing some of the cheapest demons (rounded up):

Demon Cost Icon Karma.png Karma Profit Cost-per-Karma
Icon Gems.png Gems Icon Mag.png Mag Other
3★ Clear Clear rare demon talk 1 Karma - - 1 Demon
3★ Red Yellow Purple Teal Colored (50~100 Gems for summoning) 10 Karma 5-10 Gems - -
4★ Clear Clear fusing Sandalphon.jpg Sandalphon: 171k Mag + about 13 1★ Clear Demons 30 Karma - 5700 Mag -
4★ Red Yellow Purple Teal Colored fusing Sandalphon.jpg Sandalphon: 50-100 Gems + 2 1★ Clear Demon + 330k Mag 300 Karma 5-10 Gems ~1100 Mag -
5★ Clear Clear fusing Alilat.jpg Alilat: about 1M Mag + 60 1★ Clear Demons 250 Karma - ~3850 Mag -
5★ Red Yellow Purple Teal Colored fusing Lilith.jpg Lilith: 50-100 Gems + about 36 1★ Clear Demons + 3.7M Mag 2500 Karma 5-10 Gems ~1500 Mag -

Idea 1: sell 3★ Colored demons immediately

Because the procedure to obtain "Gacha Demons" will surely crowd up the inventory with lots of useless 3★ Colored Demons, their 5 Icon Gems.png Gem cost's irrelevant (they'd be spent anyway). This leads to the conclusion that the most inexpensive way to collect Karma is by selling 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each, at a cost of effectively nothing. However, your Karma income will be *very* slow by doing that!

For example, to purchase an Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png Arch-Shifter 5★ for 3000 Karma, it would be necessary to sell 300 3★ Colored Demons for 10 Karma each. At a summoning rate of 10 demons per banner, that'd be 30 banner summonings. If one is trying to save Gems, that'd be about four 500 Gem banner summonings per month, so, to get a single Arch-Shifter 5★ for the best exchange ratio, a player would have to wait about seven months...

Of course, this estimate assumes the worst-case that only 3★ Colored Demons will be pulled from the 500 Gem banners (sometimes your luck really is that bad), or that the player won't want to sell away any of the eventual 4★ Colored Demons that they get (maybe it's a beginner, seeking quantity more than quality at the time).

Conclusion:

  • In terms of getting steady Karma income, it's way too slow.
  • If you just need to make space in your inventory, selling the 3★ is fine, and should be your default action.

Idea 2: fuse 3★ Colored demons up, then sell

If you've reached a point in the game where you can harvest Magnetite fast enough, have a lot of it to spare, and are in a hurry to get Karma, it can be worth spending some Mag to fuse 3★ Colored Demons into a higher rarity before selling them. But how far should we go with this: 4★ or 5★?

Looking at the table above, the most Mag-efficient method is fusing a 3★ Colored Demon into a 4★ Colored Demon, with a cost of ~1100 Mag per Karma gained.

If we assume this method, an Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png Arch-Shifter 5★ at 3,000 Karma is still quite expensive - you'd need to fuse 10x 4★ Colored Demons, at a cost of 3.3 mil Mag. That's approximately the Mag cost of fusing one 5★ Colored Demon.

Cost-saving tactics for fusion:

  • Every month or so, some demon races will have a 30% off Fusion price discount, making the conversion rates more attractive.
  • Plan for the Colored Demon fusion to be used in the last step of the fusion (the step that actually creates the 4★). If you insert it earlier, you'll end up spending extra Mag on creating 3★ Colored demons.

Conclusion:

  • If your Mag income is good, you can consider fusing 3★ Colored Demons into 4★ Colored Demons, then selling.
  • You should NOT expect to be able to do this with every 3★ Colored Demon that you pull - it'll cost too much Mag for you to keep up. If you just want to free up inventory space, sell the 3★ Colored demons raw.

What's worth selling?

First of all, do not sell 5★ Demons, EVER!

Unwanted 5★ Demons have several better uses to consider:

  • Fusion - You could fuse the 5★ into a different 5★ that you actually want to keep.
  • Paneling - Spiritizing dupes of a 5★ demon to unlock its Panels.
    • Fusing-then-Paneling - If the demon's panels don't look interesting, you could also fuse the 5★ into a different 5★ that you want to Panel instead, then spiritize it.
  • Armaments - Creating, Paneling or Upgrading Armaments in Alter-World.
    • Note 1: for Paneling and Upgrading, the Demons must be Spiritized, which cannot be reverted, so make sure the desired Weapons have been created before Spiritizing the Demons to Panel or Upgrade them.
    • Note 2: while Paneling is Demon-specific, that is, it requires Spirits of the same Demon, Upgrading requires Demon Compound or any 4★ or 5★ Demon Spirits (5★ Spirits yields 100% success on Upgrading.)

It's also less-efficient to fuse-then-sell 5★ compared to fuse-then-sell 4★, anyway.

Which 3★ and 4★ to sell?

Not every 3★ and 4★ Demon is suitable for being sold, though (they aren't all useless):

  • Skill Transfer - If they have rare or useful transferable Gacha skills, you should keep them as fodder for those skills. See the Skill Transfer article for some examples of what to look for.
  • Don't sell 3★ and 4★ Clear Common Demons - They yield very little Karma (1 and 30 respectively), and are a lot more useful as fusion materials.
  • Democalypse fillers - Some 4★ Demons can be useful for Democalypse (bi-weekly Faction Event), at least as long as you still lack 5★s.
    • Anubis.jpg Anubis and Titania.jpg Titania are the most-notable decent 4★ to keep for Democalypse.
    • Check the Democalypse article and the Tier List to evaluate which ones you want to keep.
    • That being said, gathering Magnetite to fuse 4★ will become quite easy the further you are in the game. So, you shouldn't worry too much about selling fusible 4★.
  • Fusion fodder - If a 4★ is "useless" by the above rules, but still has a high Grade (generally 66 or higher), it may be worth keeping them around for performing future 5★ fusions.

Only sell demons if you immediately need an Arch-Shifter, or you feel flooded with too many Demons and are urged to do some cleaning.

Selling Genomes

As of Patch 3.2.00, you can sell Icon Skill Genome.png Skill Genomes in the items menu at the following rates:

  • 4★ Genomes: 100 Karma
  • 5★ Genomes: 1000 Karma

However, due to the scarcity of 4/5★ Genomes, it is ill-advised to sell Genomes for Karma.

It is possible to obtain a supply of 4/5★ Genomes by spending 250 Icon Battle Points.png Battle Points on Elemental Skill Boxes, which hand out 4/5★ Genomes. The Almighty Almighty Skill Box contains not-very-useful almighty attacks such as Necro Dogma, which are considered 5★ Genomes, at the cost of 500 Duel Points.

As of September 2020, reaching Diamond 1 in PvP at the end of each ranked season will net you a "H" elemental skill such as Maragidyne H which is useful for Democalypse, but also are 5★ Genomes worth 1000 karma.

Spending Karma

Exchange shop

Picture of the different Arch-Shifters

Arch-Shifters are the primary items for Karma spending. But you can buy a few other items with Karma:

  • Icon Tendency Selector.png Tendency Selectors: This item allows you to change a demon's AI when auto mode is on. 10 Karma for 10 Tendency Selectors is a very good price, so this is good item to spend a little Karma on.
  • Low-rarity demons (1 and 2★): These can be purchased in the Compendium (not the Karma shop). Kanbari.jpg Kanbari is one of the best Compendium demons to purchase (see Leveling).
    • Other than that, it can be worth it to spend on 2★ if they are complicated to talk/fuse and are on the road map for a demon you want to fuse.
    • You should be very conservative with your purchases at the Compendium. Try to avoid it, as 1★ and 2★ demons are usually easy enough to recruit and/or fuse, though at the cost of Icon Stamina.png Stamina and time.
  • 4★ Clear Common (Clear) demons in the Karma shop: a selection of 4★ are available in the Karma shop. Don't buy them, ever, unless you are extremely desperate and in a hurry for whatever reason. Even Odin.jpg Odin, the most valuable of them, would cost a little less than 500k Icon Mag.png Mag to fuse, but would cost the equivalent of the boggling amount of 150 3★ Colored Demons sold for 10 Karma each to purchase. The only practical reason for wasting that much Karma would be to save the time that'd be spent gathering the necessary demons to fuse (but if one doesn't have much time, why play this game?!)
  • Icon 5 Star Hell Bun.png 5★ Hell Buns: These are ridiculously expensive, don't buy them.

Karma shop listings:

Item Icon Karma.png Karma cost Cap
Icon Transcend Stone.png Transcend Stone for Indrajit.jpg Indrajit 2,000 94
Icon Transcend Stone.png Transcend Stone for Mahakala.jpg Mahakala 2,000 94
Icon Transcend Stone.png Transcend Stone for Yoshitsune.jpg Yoshitsune 1,500 94
Icon Transcend Stone.png Transcend Stone for Alice.jpg Alice 1,500 94
Clear Odin.jpg Odin 1,500 1 / month
Clear Anubis.jpg Anubis 1,500 1 / month
Clear Azrael.jpg Azrael 1,000 1 / month
Clear Rangda.jpg Rangda 1,000 1 / month
Clear Sandalphon.jpg Sandalphon 1,000 1 / month
Clear Wu Kong.jpg Wu Kong 1,000 1 / month
Icon 5 Star Hell Bun.png 5★ Hell Buns x50 15,000 2 / month
Icon Arch Selector 5 Star.png Arch-Selector 5★ 15,000 1 / month
Icon Arch Selector 4 Star.png Arch-Selector 4★ 2,500 1 / month
Icon Arch Shifter 5 Star.png Arch-Shifter 5★ 3,000 5 / month
Icon Arch Shifter 4 Star.png Arch-Shifter 4★ 500 5 / month
Icon Tendency Selector.png Tendency Selector 5★ x10 10 No cap

Compendium

Karma can be spent to re-summon certain demons from the Compendium. However, there are several restrictions:

Demon Icon Karma.png Karma Cost
most 1★ 3
multi-fusion 1★ 6
most 2★ 10
multi-fusion 2★ 20
most 3★ 300
multi-fusion 3★ 600

See also

For other uses of fodder demons:

Game Mechanics
Resources Items • Talk • Magnetite/Fusion (Fusible Demons) • Karma • Summoning (Demon Summoning Pool, Skill Summoning Pool, Choice File) • Event Reward Demons • Season Pass
Team Building Battle Speed • Team restrictions • Liberators • Armaments • Demonite
Upgrading Leveling/Evolving • Awakening • Spirit Merge • Transcend
Customization Archetypes • Skill Transfer • Brands • Mitama • Sin Infusion • Devil Connector
Misc Formulas • AR Scanner • Devicon • Alignment
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